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Letters to the Pied Society PDS

JOHN and PAM - Thanks John for popping by.........

JOHN and PAM – Thanks John for popping by………

 

Still talking about Pieds:

 

At the PBS we do get a number of questions about the pied varieties – most of which we can answer either indirectly through the Pied Piper or in person at the Club – but of course our preference is to do at the monthly meetings which are held in Panania in NSW.

 

It is amazing the depth of knowledge of the pied varieties that you will find in the Club and through the Friends of the PBS – and this includes academic as well as the knowledge derived from years of experience.

 

Just this month we have received two specific queries with respect to the Pieds, and I thought that it may well be a good idea to answer them through the Pied Piper – so I am breaking them up into individual snippets which then enables me to share my view with all our Members and Friends – and I am sure that members will let me know if they have alternative views – so here goes with the first one seeking advice on Dark Eyed Clears amongst others:

 

Question/comment: Response:
I read your article “Mainly Dark Eyed Clears” and I know it was written a few years ago and things would have progressed a bit from then. Yes – there are now many more DECs around, and some are very good exhibition birds. The main factor which has encouraged the breeding of the DEC is the fact that the Australian National Budgerigar Council has been “trialing” this variety as a Promotional Class, which is judged in the normal manner but points are not allocated to the State/Zone team.It might be time to update the article and reissue it.
I’m going to start up in the budgies again a few months down the track (I have had them on and off for the past 30 years.)  We find that many of the people that are interested in the PBS have kept budgerigars previously, and often are very aware of the hobby, even though the exhibition bird might have changed quite considerably in the intervening years.
This variety and group of birds DEC, Recessive Pied, Dutch Pied/Clearflight is what I am venturing into this time.  This group of birds is considered by most of our Members to be the most interesting group – but then some of us do tend to have “tunnel vision” when it comes to budgerigars.
In your article you say that if you breed a DEC with a Normal you will get a percentage of Dutch Pieds.( Are they well marked)I also read  the article you said from Galib Al Nasar and a few others that I found on the internet.

 

I personally believe that we should be breeding Dutch dominant pieds in an as pure format as we can – and concentrate on the markings.The quality of the Dutch dominant pieds that come out from the DECs depend on the quality that goes into the DEC.

As far as I am concerned Ghalib is the expert that I refer to – and he has a depth of ‘budgerigar’ knowledge.

One in particular was written by Ian Fielding on Clearflights and in here he says that what we call a Dutch Pied is really a bad marked Clearflight?  I do not agree with Ian on this – but it is interesting that there appear to be significantly more Continental clearflighted pieds in UK than in Australia – whereas most of ours are Dutch dominant pieds and very few Continental clearflighted pieds – although we do have plenty of clearflighted pieds with coloured ‘primary tail feathers’.
I have seen  photos only of Dutch Pieds but looking at them and going by description in budgies books they fit the bill.English breeders, not all I suppose don’t really go for variety like we do and have mixed and ruined some variety particularly the pied.(just my opinion)

 

The ANBC Standard clearly distinguishes between the Clearflighted pied (there are two types here) and the Dutch dominant pied and we do have some super photographs of pieds of all sorts. 

I an sure that the Rare Budgie Breeders in England wouldn’t agree with your comment/personal opinion…..but I do!

There are a few different articles on the net but they are quite a few years old, do you know where I can source any that are up to date.First question is the variety we call Dutch Pied true to the original variety. If bred DEC x Normal are they well marked?

 

Much of the information available on DEC is quite old – although we are now seeing some interesting articles from some of the newer breeders.Nearly all of the pied varieties have been mongrelised – hence I believe that we should be trying to establish true-breeding lines for both Dutch dominant pieds and Continental clearflighted pieds.

I believe that they are the same variety but with a different expression as a result of modifying genes.

Second is the Clear flight in Aust different to the European Clearflight.( are they separate variety) Will a DEC x Normal breed a percentage of these as well and how do you tell the difference between a Clearflight and Dutch Pied bred this way?  A curly question I know.I want to do the research properly as I want to start up with these birds when I get back in the hobby.

 

We have two forms of Clearflights, which unfortunately are exhibited in the same class, but genetically are quite different – we have the Australian clearflight which, in my opinion, has much in common with the old Winged Pied – and will not combine to produce DECs and you have the Continental Clearflight (which should have a clear tail and will combine to produce DECs).The only way to be sure is breed your clearflights from DECs – or get them from a reputable breeder that understands the breeding
If its ok to ask what pairing has given you the best marked birds?  Personal comment – I like to use a Dutch dominant pied/recessive pied x a recessive pied or a split recessive pied when breeding for DECs.  If breeding for Dutch dominant pieds then I use a Dutch Dominant pied cock over normal hens.
I was thinking about 6 pairs in total of the varieties in this group (DEC,Recessive,DutchPied) to start a family, am I on the right track. I reckon this would be an ideal number.
When you say Normal  to DEC to breed percentage of Dutch Pieds in the article would you stay away from Cinnamonwing ,Opaline and Spangle?Would you buy all birds from one breeder as the family traits would be set or from two or more to bring different features together?

 

The short answer is “yes” I would use normal hens – and I would also try to exclude the grey factor in that as well. 

As far as purchasing birds I would try to get them from one or two main breeders that are relatively close to you – with normal outcrosses as required.

 

The main way to improve DEC is to improve the Dutch dominant pied.

Any advice you can give me will be greatly appreciated.  Certainly join the Pied Society, as it is the only budgerigar society that specialises in the pied varieties – and also join a local budgerigar Club that is recognised by the ANBC.
The cost of birds is a touchy subject, but what could I expect to pay (guide price) for a reasonably sized DEC, and Recessive or Dutch Pied with good variety markings.  They have been selling at auction at rather high prices – however the Members of the PBS do give preference to other fellow Members, and often the birds exchange hands between friends for ‘no chsarge’ – and if sold a reasonable quality split recessive pied or Dutch dominant pied could be obtained for no more than $50 and a reasonable recessive pied and DEC for no more than a $100 – unless of course you are wanting to buy top quality birds (not advised).

 

Now for the second query received from a Branch of the BS NSW:

 

 

Question/comment: Response:
One of our members bought a Clear Flighted Dominant pied Olive at a recent auction. 

My understanding is it is a different mutation to the Australian Dominant Pied.

 

What kind of Clearflighted pied is it?  If it has been bred from a dominant pied then it will have dark primary tail feathers (usually) as opposed to a clear flighted bird with yellow or white primaries, which usually is in the Dutch dominant family. 

The clearflighted pied is shown in the dominant pied class.

 

The Australian Dominant Pied is the name that was used for the banded pied morph of the dominant pied.

Our member said he was going to mate her to one of his banded pieds ? Is there a better option.  If it is a clearflight from the dominant pieds then this is a very good mating, as you would want to breed pieds with bands for the BS NSW shows. The ANBC Standard for the dominant pied refers to a “complete band of ground colour, approximately 20mm wide and extending across the body approximately midway between the lower edge of the mask and the legs is optimal”. 

If it is a Continental clearflighted pied then there are options that would be preferable.

 

The PBS is always happy to answer questions about the pied varieties.

 

jaysee

June 2014.

 

 

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